so a faithful read posted this on another post but it is worthy of its own thread
Hey Steve I heard this comment and thought of you being a big Bird fan.
The buzz up here in the sports talk radio arena is a comment that Cedric Maxwell made after the Celtics 3rd win of the season. Forgive me if someone knows the exact quote but it went something like this "Kevin Garnett is the second best Celtic to wear the uniform behind only Russell". And he went on to add that he thought Oljauwon and Dirk Nowitzki were and are better all around players than Bird was on both ends of the court.
A reporter caught up with Bird and told him the Garnett comment that Maxwell made and his reply was "ya that's ok he quit on us and I'm sure he'll quit on him (Garnett) as the season goes".
I'm not sure if you caught any of this or if even made any waves down there, but the topic has opened up a whole can of worms as far as who is the greatest and in which oreder do they fall. Most of the sports host feel Bird is second behind Russell which I feel is right. It's hard to compare with the whole center/forward argument, but if you have to assign them a number Russell then Bird in my book.
Here's a dumb question. Any thoughts on this????
ok, first off, no, I had not heard this. Assuming the quote is actually a quote (real), then there has to be significantly more to their relationship than anybody ever knew. Doesn't Max do the TV or something for the Celtics? Maxwell is regarded as the reason they won the championship in 81 ("climb on my back...") and I never knew of animosity between Bird and Maxwell. If Maxwell indeed is part of the Celtics broadcast team, then it really is interesting that he is making quotes that are anti-homerish. Olajuwan is hard to compare as you mention (center vs. forward) but to say Nowitzki is better than Bird was is ridiculous.
Larry's (on left) and Nowitzki (on right) stats per 40 minutes played
excluding of course any decreases for declining years for Nowitzki, which hasn't happened yet):
Just for a look, here is the same chart with Garnett and others added in. My opinion of Garnett is fast changing and I was curious about his stats:
I am shocked and disappointed by Maxwell's statement. I wish I knew the scoop. Will try investigating further but if you hear anything else, let me know here.
Maxwell is dead to me now.
here is some stuff I found on this "feud"
a quote from a poster in that forum : Cedric maxwell is on a sports talk show in Charlotte off and on during the summer. The host is Billy Packer's kid. Decent show unless Maxwell is on. i have heard him say on many occasions he carried Lary Bird and refers to the 81 championship mvp as proof. He stirred up a ton of shit by playing the race card during the Vick incident. IMHO he is an ass.
www.blog.hofmag.com/2007/05/02/nowitzki-no-larry-bird/
After thinking through the potential counter arguements amoung any group of player comparisions, I come to realize something about the NBA that differs from say, MLB.
When comparing my heroes, Bird, McHale, DJ etc. to players before them, I was countered with the argument of "the game is different, you need to compare them against their contemporaries"...
That argument was based on the assumption that the basketball of the 80's was better than the basketball of the 60's. Fair enough statement I believe.
Comparing someone today to the 80's though is the inverse of that. Basketeball today is worse off than the 80's. I am not talking about fan appeal although it translates to that as well.
I am talking about the skills of basketball. Today's player has tremendous physical skills and would rank higher than any previous era no doubt. The basketball skills outside of physical jumping abilities etc. are declined compared to prior generations. Not the case when comparing 80's to 60's though. Big differnce.
While the escalated money has a part in decline in skills, so must the Me/Now generation that has ESPN and video games and instant gratification through the internet for any information. I don't think there is as much practicing of fundamentals as there used to.
Take Michael Jordan. At the time of his peak period, he was easily the most physically gifted basketball player in the NBA. What made him the greatest ever, he practiced fundamentals and merged that with his physical prowess.
How many of todays greats do that?
Comment from: Rob [Visitor] Email
ReplyDeleteLet me give you a local perspective from one who listens to WEEI up here. Max is Max. As a broadcaster or now also as a sports talk radio personality he says whatever he can to get paid. I think it’s that simple.
Don’t go start a hating him Boo. Most of the time you would love listening to his off-color and strangely slanted point of view. But for the most part, its just part of his show. His thing on Dirk a while back was a one-time train of thought gone crazy, but he’s not the type of guy to say he was wrong … ok, a bad trait. The Garnett thing was a simple point about skill sets on both ends of the court, not who you would rather have on your team. Old school fans up here simply dismiss it …or post stats about it and say 3 Rings :). I loved that team too, but making that the comparison takes an awful lot away from DJ, Chief, McHale, and Ainge. When has Garnett had that type of supporting cast? When has any superstar since Magic and Bird had that type of supporting cast? (No, I don't think Pippen and Rodman count)
As far as the Bird-feud (that sounds a lot like Bird-flu) I think it’s again simply comments that got away from him. Max has long referenced the - jump on my back, boys - moment over the years and his MVP. It’s part of his gig. Does he really believe he’s a better player than Bird? No. Does he really think Dirk and KG are better? Probably not, but he’s been on talk shows a lot more this year… hummm
I’d think Bird’s response to Maxs comments is simply a build up to all of the comments, Dirk, KG, etc. This is what it sounds like when egos collide. (Prince reference for Kev’s benefit) And when has Bird ever taken the high road.
And what cuts deeper... comparing a player to other all-stars or calling one a quitter? But Bird can get away with it... hey, he's Bird.
Comment from: blmeanie [Member] Email
ReplyDeleteAs Max uses his voice and stage to say things to get attention, so do I... I love you Max...sniff...sniff...you were my hero back...oh crap, never. I appreciated what you brought to the floor but you were not a star but an overachiever that had character. Perfect fit for the team actually.
What you missed about my point with the stats is this: The NBA in whole was better then. It wasn't just like the Celtics and Lakers had incredible teams. The dominant teams of that era had multiple superstars or at least multiple all-star type players. Isiah, Lambeer, Dumars, Rodman... Dr. J, Cheeks, Toney, Moses... Hakeem, Sampson. Ewing, Bernard King...oops, sorry, went off track there.
Garnett has Pierce and Allen this year. By far it is the best version of the 80's in 2007 style. Does he have comparable team to the '86 Celtics, nope, nobody does though. Best team ever...remember?
Argument could be made that Bird's stats were deflated because of the number of all-stars that were contributing.
I don't see Bird making the quitting comment without something being deep there between them. I think they should ask David Thirdkill, he was Max's buddy on those teams wasn't he? Or was it Terry Duerod? Duerod I think, Thirdkill was around the '86 team.
Now that the Celts have lost a game they can get on with a new win streak. Honestly, all I care about is watching some hoops, it has been too long and I am enjoying the moment when I can from down here (have seen parts of 4 games on tv).
Comment from: Jeff Daniels [Visitor] Email · http://www.characterplanet.com
ReplyDeleteGarnett is just a straight savage and I think he would have owned Larry Bird.
Comment from: blmeanie [Member] Email
ReplyDeleteDefensively Garnett is a beast. He is a nice offensive player but Bird was infinitely better.
Bird's ability to make good defensive players over react to fakes etc. would have made for a good match-up.
Thanks for posting Jeff, may I ask how you found this site?